Why we DON’T WANT Universal Healthcare

Posted on February 13, 2008. Filed under: Feminist Garbage, Socialism/Communism |

Y’all know I am totally against socialized healthcare and this article points out some of the reasons. I don’t want to have to wait 6 months just to get a simple medical test, and if the gov’t is in charge you can bet we’ll have the long waiting lists that they have in other countries who use the gov’t healthcare system.

Health Care: Government vs. Private
By Walter E. Williams

Sometimes the advocates of socialized medicine claim that health care is too important to be left to the market. That’s why some politicians are calling for us to adopt health care systems such as those in Canada, the United Kingdom and other European nations. But the suggestion that we’d be better served with more government control doesn’t even pass a simple smell test.
Do we want the government employees who run the troubled Walter Reed Army Medical Center to be in charge of our entire health care system? Or, would you like the people who deliver our mail to also deliver health care services? How would you like the people who run the motor vehicles department, the government education system, foreign intelligence and other government agencies to also run our health care system? After all, they are not motivated by the quest for profits, and that might mean they’re truly wonderful, selfless, caring people.
As for me, I’d choose profit-driven people to provide my health care services, people with motives like those who deliver goods to my supermarket, deliver my overnight mail, produce my computer and software programs, assemble my car and produce a host of other goods and services that I use.
There’s absolutely no mystery why our greatest complaints are in the arena of government-delivered services and the fewest in market-delivered services. In the market, there are the ruthless forces of profit, loss and bankruptcy that make producers accountable to us. In the arena of government-delivered services, there’s no such accountability. For example, government schools can go for decades delivering low-quality services, and what’s the result? The people who manage it earn higher pay. It’s nearly impossible to fire the incompetents. And, taxpayers, who support the service, are given higher tax bills.
Our health care system is hampered by government intervention, and the solution is not more government intervention but less. The tax treatment of health insurance, where premiums are deducted from employees’ pre-tax income, explains why so many of us rely on our employers to select and pay for health insurance. Since there is a third-party payer, we have little incentive to shop around and wisely use health services.
There are “guaranteed issue” laws that require insurance companies to sell health insurance to any person seeking it. So why not wait until you’re sick before purchasing insurance? Guaranteed issue laws make about as much sense as if you left your house uninsured until you had a fire, and then purchased insurance to cover the damage. Guaranteed issue laws raise insurance premiums for all. Then there are government price controls, such as the reimbursement schemes for Medicaid. As a result, an increasing number of doctors are unwilling to treat Medicaid patients.
Before we buy into single-payer health care systems like Canada’s and the United Kingdom’s, we might want to do a bit of research. The Vancouver, British Columbia-based Fraser Institute annually publishes “Waiting Your Turn.” Its 2006 edition gives waiting times, by treatments, from a person’s referral by a general practitioner to treatment by a specialist. The shortest waiting time was for oncology (4.9 weeks). The longest waiting time was for orthopedic surgery (40.3 weeks), followed by plastic surgery (35.4 weeks) and neurosurgery (31.7 weeks).
As reported in the June 28 National Center for Policy Analysis’ “Daily Policy Digest,” Britain’s Department of Health recently acknowledged that one in eight patients waits more than a year for surgery. France’s failed health care system resulted in the deaths of 13,000 people, mostly of dehydration, during the heat spell of 2003. Hospitals stopped answering the phones, and ambulance attendants told people to fend for themselves.
I don’t think most Americans would like more socialized medicine in our country. By the way, I have absolutely no problem with people wanting socialism. My problem is when they want to drag me into it.


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33 Responses to “Why we DON’T WANT Universal Healthcare”

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You might also want to see some research that comes from somewhere else than The Fraser Institute – a PR firm of industry hacks disguised as a ‘think tank’ that collects millions from insurance and pharmaceutical corporations to attack public health care. It’s infamous up here for warped statistics and disingenuous arguments and has no credibility outside of a very narrow ideological bandwidth.

American medical wait times are as high or higher and concentrated in much more expensive emergency room care because people can’t afford the primary care that would help them avoid the emergency room in the first place. The wait times we do have – although heavily exaggerated by the Fraser Institute, yes they do exist – are the result of conservative policies. For instance, in the early 90’s government and policy figures got it into their heads that there were gong to be too many doctors in the system and steps were taken to reduce medical school enrollment – we’re still paying for this short-sightedness now.

The Fraser Institute doesn’t even really try to sell this snake oil up here anymore. For all our bitching an overwhelming majority of Canadians are firmly opposed to moving away from our single payer system – it isn’t socialized, doctors are independent businesses who just deal with one insurer rather than hundreds – all we have to do is look across the border at a system that costs twice as much per capita and leaves millions with no coverage at all.

Do what you want with your own system folks, but consider if someone has to outright lie to make their case about the Canadian system – they must not have a very good case to begin with right?

Sorry, I’m not convinced. I have personally looked online at wait times for Canada and Britain and there is no way I want to live that way. I’m not saying that our healthcare does not need to be re-vamped and that our health insurance companies don’t need to be taken down a notch or two. Both of those things need to happen, but universal healthcare is NOT the way to do it. If your system is so good, then why do so many people from other countries, including yours, come to America to get the healthcare they need? They could die waiting for a surgery in your country, so they come here. Bottom line, gov’t NEVER runs things better. Every gov’t-run agency is full of bureacratic red-tape, unneccesary high costs, and bad service. Competition makes for better goods and services. I want smaller gov’t and less gov’t-run agencies. Free markets are the best way!!

In Australia:
Rich People – Have to wait a few weeks
Unless it’s an emergency
Get the best care
Get it for free

Poorer People – Have to wait a few weeks
Unless it’s an emergency
Get the best care
Get is for free

In America:
Rich people – Get everything immediately
Get the best care
Have to pay heaps

Poorer people – Cant’ afford it.
If it’s an emergency they either go bankrupt of die (like more than 18,000 Americans do each year – that’s 6 x 9/11s every year)

In a universal healthcare system, quality dosen’t drop because the doctors are privately employed and people choose which doctor to go to. If you have a bad doctor you choose to go to another one and eventually the bad doctor will go out of business.

The only people that travel into America to get healthcare are the rich people who don’t want to wait 2-3 weeks for a specialist appoitment. There are faarr more working class people in the world than rich people – so the American healthcare system is only good for a minority, whereas a universal system caters for the majority. There is a reason why EVERY OTHER western country in the world has a universal system. -_-

right on aussie!!truth to power!! bridget is a typical fox news fed moron!

dim bulb bridget does not seem to grasp the fact that the private insurers only care about attaining mega-profit!not providing americans with quality affordable medical care.

Rage,you can’t grasp that I think insurance companies care about me. And the reality is: I DON”T think they care about me! I think I want to be in charge of my own care and a capitalist system is the only way that can happen. What I find amazing is that you think the GOV’T cares about you and your healthcare!!

Holy Hell, I’m also an American, and Bridget is an ignorant tool. She clearly is blind because she again is saying “I think I want to be in charge of my own care”, Bridget did u not hear them at all, they have the FREEdom to choose what ever doctor they want. Personally i have traveled the world, and HAVE experienced the other countries healthcare systems, AND they do WORK. What she doesn’t seem to see is that not only will SHE be spending less on healthcare, and as well as our gov’t, she will have the doctor the same service and our Nation Will CONTINUE TO SHOW THAT IT IS ONE OF THE BEST!!! Bridget the US is a lot about status, and what does it show other countries when the people living here are dying and going bankrupt because of something like healthcare. I thought it was a no brainer for the US to take this step, but it is these huge amount of ignorant selfish souls that dont care about people that weren’t as lucky as themselves. Im 19 years old, with no health issues living in a upper middle class area. OPEN YOUR EYES BRIDGET!!!!!

Why do liberals pretend Canada and UK have good healthcare? Don’t they know people from those countrys come here and pay their own money for quality doctors? once those librals get their way being a doctor won’t be prestegous at all, it’ll be just like working at McDonalds, and then our doctors won’t be any good. They’re trying to pull America down from being #1.

Why do you assume America is #1? We are like number 34 on the list and that was way back in 2002. With the decline of the economy and the fact that we pay almost 2x’s as much for health care than Canada and the United Kingdom its bound to have come down some. Id rather have a so called “none prestigious” doctor than have no doctor at all.

What is america number one at? not healthcare that is for sure. Canada, Europe and UK etc have the best health care in the world. Our doctors, researchers, surgeons are some of the highest trained, at the forefront of most medical advances and in the top 5% of doctors in the world.

i believe that there are so many americans that are so self centered they don’t want to see the truth all they know is their family and themselves are cared for so eveyone else should swim alone. if anyone is christian they will believe that everyone deserves a chance to get well just like God our father said if you take care of the sick you have helped me and that’s what i want to see done.

Kristina, universal healthcare does NOT solve the problem you’re talking about. In fact, it makes worse healthcare for everyone. Our healthcare system does need to be overhauled, but universal healthcare is not the answer.

You don’t know what your talking about. go back to sleep. Universal health care is the best in the world. and it is not “socialized”

Hey you moron for your info Canada and other
countries have Universal health care Not “socialized health care” where “bumbling” government workers are employed throughout the system.Obviously you are so seriously misinformed.In Canada where I’m from my family doctor is NOT a Gov’t employee.No sir.He runs his practice like a practice in the U.S.A , the only difference being that instead of billing a myriad of private insurers, he sends all his bills to the Provincial Gov’t who then send him his money.This is what’s called the “single payer system”.Oh sure you say the U.S. doctors can charge more ,true but unlike your doctors ours do not require hundreds of thousands of dollars in malpractice insurance,just to stay in business.And oh did I mention he does all this to make a PROFIT.Also in Canada I can go to any doctors office that I want to or any family doctor clinic without any fuss.Can you do that.I can get in to see any family doctor that same day ,can you do that.Don’t tell me you can because I have friends and relatives in the good Ol U.S.A. and they all tell me about restrictions unless you are very rich your system of health care simply sucks! If it was so great then how come all these other developed countries don’t adopt your system?Yes you have good doctors and good hospitals but your wait times are so much lower only because tens of millions of people cannot afford to get in line if there were one.I’m close to 50 years old and I have always had excellent care and I have never seen a medical bill in my entire life.Finally, your roads are single payer system, your military is a single payer system, your prisons are single payer,your border agents are single payer,and so on.Most Americans don’t have a problem with those services and the way it is payed for so why not medicine for people who need it.If anything in any modern developed society it should be a basic human right.Problem is most Americans haven’t had the luxury of traveling or even living elsewhere,so most are simply unaware and are being brainwashed by the Fox News media hooligans,who by the way are probably rich so they don’t care.

Thank you!

Yesss, some common sense! 🙂

right on bob!truth to power!!bridget does not get it!being canadian you know that your system works very well for the canadian people!i,ll bet money that bridget has never been or lived outside the u.s. bridget really actually believes that the private insurance pirates really care to provide the american citizens with quality affordable healthcare!hey maybe someone should try to sell bridget the goldengate bridge..bridget would probably say how much?

Thank you bob. these americans might actually get informed one day when they stop believing the fear mongering they listen too.

You’re the moron! Even the architect of your healthcare system says it has failed and that you need to go back to private healthcare. Any gov’t-run program is worse than private-run. Competition makes things better. You mention our military, roads, etc. Yeah, they are gov’t run because that is government’s responsibility, but it still doesn’t mean they are run well. They’re not. I am a gov’t employee so I know about the waste, the bad customer service, and all the other ways that gov’t-run programs are 2nd-rate. All the red tape and bureaucracy makes it that way. Also, Mr. Canada, as a social worker I know that people DO have access to healthcare, it’s just not as convenient as they want it to be so they say they don’t have it. You probably don’t have a problem with your healthcare because you’ve probably never had a major medical issue. I bet if you needed a life-saving operation that they put off for months you’d see the healthcare system there is not so great. And by the way, universal and socialized are the same thing – the GOV”T is in charge!

nooo bridget your the moron!!you presume to tell someone from canada that their healthcare system isn,t working for them…you know you are infuriatingly stupid!!!you really are!!given that bob is from canada and knows the canadian system works well for the people there your uninformed opinion is worth less than nothing!! also in polls taken in canada the majority of people prefer the canadian system to the us system!!!how many people in canada have to file bankruptcy because of their system?do you want to bet money that more people in the states have to do that than canadians?!! but you just keep living in your republican fantasy world you moron!!

Once again, you don’t have a clue as to what your talking about. Get a clue, just because your a gov’t worker doesn’t mean you know anything about universal healthcare. every healthcare system can be bettered however, I will take my top doctors in the world, our leading researchers and best surgeons for free over spending thousands of dollars for your mediocre system that bankrupts people just to save their lives. Get a grip and learn the fadcts about what your spouting off about. or are you paid by the private health care lobbyists like most of your wasteful goverment workers.

Oh, and another thing for Bob in Canada. Maybe y’all have some extra money for healthcare because you don’t have a real military. You know that if you get in trouble the good ole USA will do your dirty work for you and will protect you. It must be nice not to have to put a lot of money towards defense because you know we’ll step in. Y’all certainly like to talk bad about us, but then will certainly accept our protection. Grow up, Canada! Stop making us take care of you.
Also, when your healthcare system fails, where do your people go?? Right here to the USA. Our doctors fix your mistakes and operate on people who can’t get in quick enough in your country. You’re ungrateful, but as usual the USA is the 911 for the rest of the world!!!

bridget you not only suck!!! but you are totally ignorant!!canada is not asking the u.s. to take care of it!!you have unbelieveable nerve to even suggest that!!you are truly sooo friggin ignorant [and i,m sure a fucking republican!!]that you should be buried somewhere deep in a concrete bunker like nuclear waste so you cannot contaminate the rest of the world with your stupidity!!!oh by the way moron nuclear is pronounced nu-clear not nucyellar like you moronic bush followers do!!

Haha, yes, thank you!

I am against universal aka socialized medicine. Just because I believe in personal responsibility and that government shouldn’t take care of you. When government is too involved in taking care of you, you lose rights and lose motivation. I also believe universal care would be abused – some people would go to the doctor for the most minor things.

In England I’ve heard that some people get so desperate waiting for dental care, they sometimes pull out their own teeth!

And lower income people still are disadvantaged under universal care. Like now for Canadians, the people with enough money can travel here to the US for treatment. The lower income people are still forced to stay there and wait.

Andrea, you beat me to the punch…the first thing that came to mind was the man who pulled his own molar after being on the “waiting list” for *years*! He got one filling at one point in time seven years after being put on the list.

The problem with this program is the same as any government handout. People who don’t need it are going to take advantage of it. Every little chance they get, they will use the “free” healthcare. While creating more patients, the government will not be creating more doctors, and the system will flood. What happens this is a no-brainer: rationed healthcare. We are then picked by some algorithm that takes into account our condition, age, etc. So, if you’re a 65 year old with leukemia waiting to see an oncologist, a 39 year old with lung cancer can stroll in and get put ahead of you on the list.

Don’t think I’m making this up, either. This is how it’s done by necessity for countries who have become obsessed with so-called “fairness.”

Why we think it’ll go any different for America is beyond me.

When i was 11, I was diagnosed with cancer. I was insured under my parents and was treated. Now 15 years later, I can’t get health insurance unless I want to pay an outrageous amount because of my medical history. Are you people going to tell me that I should have to pay more than you for health insurance because I got this horrible disease when I was 11?

Danielle, the healthcare system is not perfect and it DOES need to overhauled, but universal healthcare is not the answer. If we do that, then we ALL lose and get horrible care. What we need to do is figure out how to overhaul the system while keeping capitalism intact and the gov’t OUT of our healthcare. You should not be punished for having a disease when you were younger, but we can find a solution to that without putting gov’t in charge.

bridget!!!!!!!!!!! Why do people not listen to other people when they talk. All these SCARED conservatives always talk about canada or europe or cuba or some other country. I find it funny that most people that I talk too have never even been out of the united states!!!! Did you listen to Bob from canada? Obviously not. He said the goernment doesn’t run the doctors offices!!!!! It is a single payer system…..less cost for doctors!!!!!!….less cost for you and me!!!!!!!!!!!…less cost for everyone!!!!!!!!…….no hassle by insurance or red tape or malpractice lawyers. Stop just throwing words like canada and europe around to scare people. I broke my arm while traveling in Italy and had to be rushed to the hospital. I paid ten euros for pain medication ( which I got right there at the hospital, no getting a presription and then driving to pick it up) and that was it. I didn’t have to wait. The doctors spoke four languages and were very polite. Why are you ( im gonna guess that you are rich and a repub) republicans so unwilling to pay into the system to help out your fellow americans?? What happened to we are only as strong as our weakest link? Oh and by the way the rich people in this country, who are so against paying for universal healthcare, how did you make all your money? Did some poor or middle class people work for you? Did some of them buy your product? Oh so they helped you make your money, and you don’t want to make sure that they have the bare minimum that it takes to make sure they can take care of thier kids. It makes me sick all this profit talk! Since when was someones life all about profit? Oh I forgot this is the land of the free( haha i had to laugh) and the home of the brave( where we buy big homes and put up big gates and tell all the people that scare us to go away and fend for yourself) really brave! One last thought…did you know that we all pay for the healthcare of our prison inmates here in this great country? Ya your tax dollars go to three meals a day and great health care for inmates. That is because the prison systems are privatized for profit. The more people that are in prison here the more money they make. They even trade on the stock market. So we took the government ( which means regulations) out of the prison system and they turned it into an immoral stock exchange of human barganing chips. That is what has happened to the health care system and we pay these crazy fees to these thieves and murderers we call private health care givers. I am ashamed to have once loved this country and untill I see some people in jail for these crimes I will continue….

Why would you have to wait 6 months to get a simple medical test? If everyone in the US had health care would your doctor and his/her office disappear? Don’t you think new medical facilities and more doctors be motivated to serve the additional patients that now go without? Have you ever seen Sick Around the World that looks at 5 different countries’ systems ? It may open your mind. Oh and by the way, my health insurance company decides when I can see the doctor, when I can get a medical test and how often and what medications I can have. Me and my doctor continually have to negotiate with them, spending ours and piles of paper and phone calls. They do it for profit—to keep from spending more of the premiums and the return on their investment from those premiums.
I really like that the CEO of my health insurance company made $23,000,000. in compensation in 2007. The next 7 executives in his company got a total of $100,000,000. You’d think they were the best doctors in the world, but they are not, they produce nothing and take our money.

Your remarks are totally false. Your research is biased to the point of you get kick backs from the private sector. We have the best healthcare in the world in Canada, We can see any doctor anywhere in the world, any specialist, any surgeon, wait times for critical patients is not that long, elective wait times are long but it is elective surgury. If you lose your job in the USA you lose your medical coverage, in Canada I have coverage anywhere I go in the world to whomever I chose to go see. The army does not deliver our health care and neither does the post worker. Get your facts straight before you spout false and lisleading information.

Please with the “Bob said…” and the “Bob should know…” Since when is Bob the only reference to the Canadian healthcare sytem? I’m not sure if it would work or not, but I am sure that it’s not without disadvantages as you would us to believe. My aunt, who lives in Montreal, broke her shoulder. She had surgery and unfortunately something went a bit “wrong” and afterwards was unable to move her arm due to unbearable shoulder pain. She was told she needed an MRI to determine what the problem was. So, can you please tell me, Bob (the knower of all), why she had to wait 9 months for an MRI? Obviously, having an MRI was mandatory, before deciding whether or not a second surgery would be necessary. Anyway, she didn’t bother, but instead, came to the states and had it done correctly. Miraculously, she can now raise her arm up and down…the way is should have after her first surgery. That’s just one of the stories I know to be fact with respect to the healthcare in Canada; I’ve heard more. Honestly, your doctors may be okay for checking a sore throat or giving me an antibiotic, but If I’m in your country and something worse goes wrong (and I am in your country once a year to see them), I wouldn’t let any of them get near me for anything more important. And please don’t tell me that they’re just as good because we both know that they’re not. I live in a suburb of Boston and you have no idea of the caliber of people that actually come here from all over the world for the expertise of the doctors that we have at our finger tips. Just look up some of the best hospitals in the country. Point is this, I have excellent health care but I hate that people actually die because they don’t. I’m not ignorant and do believe that things have to change, but like I said, I’m not sure if that’s the answer. And on a different note…in response to Rage…do you realize how totally ignorant you come across? Your little hissy fit against Bridget showed your true colors and actually made you quite pathetic. Interesting, how many times you called her ignorant, when the only one acting ignorant was you. Try to take your antidepressants before you spout off like that again and make an ass of yourself. And, please don’t further embarrass yourself by making a comment about her spelling. Your lack of punctuation marks and abundance of run on sentences show you for what you really are..a fool, granted an angry fool, but still a fool!

lulz @ fox news

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