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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;An Evangelical Manifesto&#8221; - Be very leery of this &#8216;progressive&#8217; document</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bridgetdgms.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/an-evangelical-manifesto-be-very-leery-of-this-progressive-document/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bridgetdgms.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/an-evangelical-manifesto-be-very-leery-of-this-progressive-document/</link>
	<description>A way for me to RANT and RAVE and try to make a difference</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 20:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mikerucker</title>
		<link>http://bridgetdgms.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/an-evangelical-manifesto-be-very-leery-of-this-progressive-document/#comment-911</link>
		<dc:creator>mikerucker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 19:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgetdgms.wordpress.com/?p=256#comment-911</guid>
		<description>i'm enjoying reading the various opinions here and there around w's internets... 

that said, i think you guys are way off base here.

personally, i had some hesitations and misgivings before reading the document, but am actually quite impressed and invigorated after taking in the whole of what it addresses.  

one of the things i like about the document is that the authors have chosen &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; to say that creationism and inerrancy are non-negotiables. for the first, there's very little biblical justification anymore behind whatever the latest flavor of anti-natural-selection dessert is being served up; for the latter, somehow we can admit that we can't prove the existence of God, but goshdarnit we have a golden egg this unprovable God laid right here. there's simply too much of a tendency to add items to the ever-increasing laundry list of ideas and doctrines to which we have to pledge allegiance before we're allowed into the room marked "Christian."

there are a few things i question, but nothing is going to please everyone, i suppose.  for instance, i'm not sure i agree with this statement: &lt;i&gt;We Evangelicals should be defined theologically, and not politically, socially, or culturally.&lt;/i&gt;  Jesus' message uses "action" verbs (physician heal thyself - inside joke): teach them to DO as I have commanded you, LOVE God and LOVE your neighbor, by this will all men know ... if you LOVE one another. any theology that defines us must have feet.

i did, however, like these words:  &lt;i&gt;We are also troubled by the fact that the advance of globalization and the emergence of a global public square finds no matching vision of how we are to live freely, justly, and peacefully with our deepest differences on the global stage.&lt;/i&gt;  somehow, we've got to figure out how we're going to peacefully share the same bathroom over the next few decades in our ever-shrinking world.

one interesting thing: maybe i missed it, but there doesn't seem to be a great emphasis on &lt;i&gt;evangelism&lt;/i&gt; in this &lt;i&gt;Evangelical&lt;/i&gt; Manifesto. do you think that was intentional? i didn't see a single chick tract referenced in the bibliography...

more than anything, i find myself motivated and energized by the very positive nature of the piece - that it isn't yet another "here's everything we're &lt;i&gt;against&lt;/i&gt;" rant but an effort to make the gospel again a message of &lt;i&gt;good news&lt;/i&gt;. imagine that - the gospel being &lt;i&gt;good news&lt;/i&gt;. American Christianity has lost this defining characteristic that once served it well.

i hope you can see that one unintended benefit of the proposal is a clear opportunity to take this EM (Evangelical Manifesto) and align it with the other EM (&lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&#38;location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FEmergent-Manifesto-Hope-emersion-communities%2Fdp%2F080106807X%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1210257943%26sr%3D8-2&#38;tag=mwc04-20&#38;linkCode=ur2&#38;camp=1789&#38;creative=9325" rel="nofollow"&gt;Emergent Manifesto&lt;/a&gt;) and finally have all our EM &#38; EMs in a row without demonizing the other side.

mike rucker
fairburn, georgia, usa
&lt;a href="http://mikerucker.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;mikerucker.wordpress.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;m enjoying reading the various opinions here and there around w&#8217;s internets&#8230; </p>
<p>that said, i think you guys are way off base here.</p>
<p>personally, i had some hesitations and misgivings before reading the document, but am actually quite impressed and invigorated after taking in the whole of what it addresses.  </p>
<p>one of the things i like about the document is that the authors have chosen <i>not</i> to say that creationism and inerrancy are non-negotiables. for the first, there&#8217;s very little biblical justification anymore behind whatever the latest flavor of anti-natural-selection dessert is being served up; for the latter, somehow we can admit that we can&#8217;t prove the existence of God, but goshdarnit we have a golden egg this unprovable God laid right here. there&#8217;s simply too much of a tendency to add items to the ever-increasing laundry list of ideas and doctrines to which we have to pledge allegiance before we&#8217;re allowed into the room marked &#8220;Christian.&#8221;</p>
<p>there are a few things i question, but nothing is going to please everyone, i suppose.  for instance, i&#8217;m not sure i agree with this statement: <i>We Evangelicals should be defined theologically, and not politically, socially, or culturally.</i>  Jesus&#8217; message uses &#8220;action&#8221; verbs (physician heal thyself - inside joke): teach them to DO as I have commanded you, LOVE God and LOVE your neighbor, by this will all men know &#8230; if you LOVE one another. any theology that defines us must have feet.</p>
<p>i did, however, like these words:  <i>We are also troubled by the fact that the advance of globalization and the emergence of a global public square finds no matching vision of how we are to live freely, justly, and peacefully with our deepest differences on the global stage.</i>  somehow, we&#8217;ve got to figure out how we&#8217;re going to peacefully share the same bathroom over the next few decades in our ever-shrinking world.</p>
<p>one interesting thing: maybe i missed it, but there doesn&#8217;t seem to be a great emphasis on <i>evangelism</i> in this <i>Evangelical</i> Manifesto. do you think that was intentional? i didn&#8217;t see a single chick tract referenced in the bibliography&#8230;</p>
<p>more than anything, i find myself motivated and energized by the very positive nature of the piece - that it isn&#8217;t yet another &#8220;here&#8217;s everything we&#8217;re <i>against</i>&#8221; rant but an effort to make the gospel again a message of <i>good news</i>. imagine that - the gospel being <i>good news</i>. American Christianity has lost this defining characteristic that once served it well.</p>
<p>i hope you can see that one unintended benefit of the proposal is a clear opportunity to take this EM (Evangelical Manifesto) and align it with the other EM (<a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&amp;location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FEmergent-Manifesto-Hope-emersion-communities%2Fdp%2F080106807X%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D1210257943%26sr%3D8-2&amp;tag=mwc04-20&amp;linkCode=ur2&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325" rel="nofollow">Emergent Manifesto</a>) and finally have all our EM &amp; EMs in a row without demonizing the other side.</p>
<p>mike rucker<br />
fairburn, georgia, usa<br />
<a href="http://mikerucker.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">mikerucker.wordpress.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bridget</title>
		<link>http://bridgetdgms.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/an-evangelical-manifesto-be-very-leery-of-this-progressive-document/#comment-880</link>
		<dc:creator>Bridget</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 23:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgetdgms.wordpress.com/?p=256#comment-880</guid>
		<description>You are soooo right, Jeffrey. This movement has me very worried and unfortunately it is catching on because it does appeal to folks' emotions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are soooo right, Jeffrey. This movement has me very worried and unfortunately it is catching on because it does appeal to folks&#8217; emotions.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Chidester</title>
		<link>http://bridgetdgms.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/an-evangelical-manifesto-be-very-leery-of-this-progressive-document/#comment-879</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Chidester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 21:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bridgetdgms.wordpress.com/?p=256#comment-879</guid>
		<description>Excellent article.  Key points:
1-We have seen an active example of this from Obama’s church in the form of statements made by his pastor (Wright).
2-I recent had a discussion with a “progressive Christian” blogger (http://sherific.blogspot.com/2008/05/abortion-vs-war.html) which illustrated how far this movement has “progressed.”  
3-The difficulty in dealing with this movement is it is based on emotion, and not fact. You will often hear a progressive Christian use the term “but My God….(would not, would, does not, does), to justify a progressive relationship with Christ.
4-You see the same progressive methodology used when trying to “bend” the US Constitution to fit their needs, because hey “it is a living breathing document, that should be updated to fit the changing times…….aaahh!”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article.  Key points:<br />
1-We have seen an active example of this from Obama’s church in the form of statements made by his pastor (Wright).<br />
2-I recent had a discussion with a “progressive Christian” blogger (http://sherific.blogspot.com/2008/05/abortion-vs-war.html) which illustrated how far this movement has “progressed.”<br />
3-The difficulty in dealing with this movement is it is based on emotion, and not fact. You will often hear a progressive Christian use the term “but My God….(would not, would, does not, does), to justify a progressive relationship with Christ.<br />
4-You see the same progressive methodology used when trying to “bend” the US Constitution to fit their needs, because hey “it is a living breathing document, that should be updated to fit the changing times…….aaahh!”</p>
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